Delayed Common Sense

[BlackDove]

Yeah, it's real simple.

SSX sounds like some porn club. I can't invite people to join the SEX group, because it sounds and writes BAD. I also abhor putting it next to my nick because it just rolls bad.

And it's not like we're exiles from anywhere anymore. The day Quiz got the .com and those shitwizards closed down the SSC, there was really nothing to be exiled from.

Really, it's not even like we were the "exiles" in the first place. It's that those three or four morons didn't want to leave our group that wanted them out, because they held the copyright for being the oldest absent members and also had super patents on the artwork?!.

So it would really stand to reason if we changed the name into something that writes and sounds good. After all, =SSC= was always cool to have next to one's nick, even though I personally hated that it was a "confederation". Sounded like I'm some dork lost from a Star Trek convention, or praychance love the slavery. But it sounds good and it writes good.

Then I was trying to come up with viable names. Naturally, the obvious choices are Shattered Star Alliance - that doesn't work, because we're not allied with anyone, and it is horrible and obvious. Shattered Star alone is nice, but it abbreviates to SS and we're not really the gestapo. When the swastika becomes our symbol, we can consider it, till then, nah.

Shattered Star Union, again SSU isn't that great, and we're just trying to go for the American Civil War names which is retarded.

As I was lulling it over (for like 3 years) and playing Metal Gear Solid 2, I liked the name-play they wrote in with Solid Snake Simulation which turned out to be Selection for Societal Sanity, in both cases, the S.

After that it was down hill. Shattered Star should always be a part of the name, because that's cool and it works. However I figured we could jam another S for the third word, and Society was really the obvious choice. As in, a society in which assholes aren't a part of anymore. Well. Malicious assholes at least.

Point is, it can be any name whatsoever. But there is no "exiles" anymore on any stretch of the imagination, and we should be able to be our own solid entity once and for all, with a name that has meaning and writes/abbreviates well.

=S3= or =S= or even =SSS= is pretty cool in my book. We're not a video card, but then again, who the hell remembers that.

Also, god damnit, "exiles" sounds like I committed a crime.

Note: =S= is an example. We can change it to Shattered Star Community, as in =SSC= or anything else that is better than the one we have now. This can all be voted on later.

[Anubis]

I told BD to bring this up now as we're soon going to be going through a re-branding of sorts, with a redesign of the Main Site to bring it into line with the forum template and the introduction of phpBB3. Therefore it makes sense that we discuss this and decide now so that, if people vote in favour, we can integrate this change into the rebranding and keep it as one sole transition. I believe it would be far easier, and smoother, to do this now should we elect to do so than five months down the line when no changes are 'in the pipeline' so to speak.

However, it will come as no surprise to any who were in IRC at the time this came up several months ago that I am voting against this proposal.

In my mind, this issue centers completely around the question of why we exiled ourseles, and what we are in exile from. The answer to this will differ from person to person I suspect, and you won't get very many people giving the exact same answer, and such is the case between myself and BD - we did not come here for the same reason to a certain extent, and as such our stance towards the name differs.

For me, I was never exiled from people - I did not know those relevant individuals well enough really to judge them as harshly as that - and as such my reason for coming into exile was not simply to leave them behind. I came into exile to avoid the notion that we should continually change our principles to suit what we want to do, and the idea that what we do is always right because we say so. Concepts, not tangible things, but processes that were being put into motion that I could not stand by and support.

As such, I still feel the term 'Exile' very relevant to our situation. Even when the SSC folded, those concepts from which I chose to distance myself remained the same - and I still stand against them and what they stand for just as much as I did just over four years ago. As such, I stand by the name as I still feel that it still defines us. We should not be ashamed of it, in my opinion.

For those who came to escape people, or other issues now long buried in the past, I can see the sense that it may well not be as relevant as it was at the time. But for me, I vote to keep it.

[Inquisitor]

I am neither in favor of a change or against it.

However, I tend to share Anny's sentiment. I can be convinced otherwise though.

and nice banner BD, if that's the direction we go, I like the art

[BlackDove]

What the hell are you talking about you blind old bat, it's the same image as the one on the top of the board except with different letters.

Hmm.

Maybe I shouldn't be so insulting to potential votes in the favor of sanity.

Where was I?

Oh right. Nobody should care about how they "feel". I "feel" exiles means something that we need to keep. I "feel" we should always strive to be something blah blah. I "feel" BlackDove is an asshole, I don't like him, let's go against whatever he's for. I "feel" I wet the bed. Feelings are for people who are weak.

The name is a porn factory. Let's fix it. With a name we can all be a part of as we stand together now, something that FUNCTIONS for what we USE IT, ie the thing that sits next to our nicks in games we play. For additional reasons, see above.

[Stracius]

Here I go, waxing philosophy and possibly making something more serious than it really is! Duck !

I'll go along with BD on this one, though not for his sense of aesthetics ( lovable argument as always, by the way). Though the logistics involved in switching names may be overly painful, I think it may be warranted.

Yes, I'd be one to say that the Exiles is there to remind us why we left, and have in the past, but do we really need that to remind us? The presense of the Shattered Star alone is enough to give us reminder of our origins. Instead, we now have enough people that weren't here for the split with SSC that it's now just a keepsake for a minority of people. I dare say, it's even just a wee bit pretentious. What is our identity? Are we defined by being exiles, the action taken when faced with, as someone apltly put, assholes? Or are we more defined by who we are as a group, and the bonds that we work on to keep us together? In that sense, Society is much more appropriate.


There's also the other factor that comes to my mind when I think of a minority vs. a majority.... "I know why we're exiles, I know the secret, founder founder blah blah blah". No, I don't see that happening (now), but it's a reason why I'll consider a name change. Call it a reaction to what I saw when the split happened, and just one more way to remove that type of seperation between any member.

He might also have a point about the pornfactory bit. I've always been fond of the SSX tag, but that could also just be blind optimism.



My two cents.

(try not to have a heart attack, Dove )

[BlackDove]

That's actually a good point which I forgot (there were MANY reasons why I hate the "exiles", but Anubis forced me to write it up today, because he's doing the BB3 change or whatever).

The explanation when recruiting.

"Hey, you're a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything, wanna join?"

"Sure, what does SSX stand for?"

"Shattered Star Exiles"

"Why exiles, why are you exiles?"

"TEN HOUR LONG STORY OF "WHY EXILES" THAT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE SLIGHTEST TO ANYONE, EVER, YET IT COMES INTO PLAY WHEN THE PROSPECTIVE MEMBER IS DECIDING WHETHER TO JOIN OR NOT BECAUSE THE HISTORY IS BAGGAGE AND ANYONE SMART ALWAYS KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE GETTING INTO"

"Man. That shit is too deep for me. I just wanna have fun. I'm gonna go with the Shattered Star Society. They don't seem to be as boring as you are."

And for what? Pointless. Just. No. Enough. This shit is supposed to be easier, not HARDER.

Yeah yeah, they should all know what we're about, etc. etc. I can convey that in about two sentences. What I can't do is define and explain the goddamn history that comes with the name that's outdated and irrelevant.

To respond to Anubis, nobody needs the name to remind them of what we need to do or what we don't need to do. We've always known what's right or wrong. The only reason the goddamn name changed is because that jacksauce held it hostage from 99% of everyone who KNEW what was right. For them to GTFO.

[M.Steiner]

Another here for the name change.

Tbh the minute we got .com back i did think at the time that it would have been good to reclaim the SSC name because although i never really got involved with stuff back then, i did feel that what we created here was essentially the SSC done right and without the crap...

Since we're the only Shattered Star's left i do think it's kinda pointless continuing to call ourselves exiles, there's no one or place to be exiled from anymore, lots of people here weren't even around back then. And even though like Anny i didn't know those people very well i personally don't think we need to hold on to that to reminds us. Everyone that was apart of the SSC back then has their own reasons for being here and i agree with Strac that the SS part of our name is enough of a reminder. We'll always have our history.

It'd be nice to forget about the past, have a name which properly indentifies us as a group_as we are now_ and just look to the future, Exiles served it's purpose imo. Society fits that well, sounds better and will be much easier to get people interested without having to always explain why we're exiles and all that. Most people just wanna have fun at the end of the day and that's what we're supposed to be about too, "for fun & friendship"..

[Kon]

I agree that things need to change. Having to explain all that crap half a decade after the fact, to every single person who wants to join is just stupid and makes us look like a drama-fest in the eyes of every normal person who doesn't know/care about our harrowing quest for justice, and just wants to play a damn video game.

[Fenavian]

I for one have never had a problem with the name, I have always had a problem with the star itself though. I mean thats something that should of been voted on by the members. I was certainly more than willing to continue to work with BD on it but he didn't seem all that interested and the group adopted the symbol. So I never pressed the issue. But if we are going to vote on a name change, then I am certainly up for voting for other changes as well. But I certainly see your point on the name. We never really were exiled, we just left. But I certainly suggest we refrain from the name calling and such, regardless of how true it is, we really don't need any more issues in that area.

[Anubis]

Just to reply to a few points here. Logistically, the change (should it be approved) may well be painful for various groups/guilds we have in existance yes, depending upon their ability/willingness to change their Guild names over - and I think for them that regardless of whatever the result of this vote turns out to be they would not be expected to go to unreasonable lengths simply to change the name over (such as, for example, reforming their entire guild under a new name).

Logistically in regards to the website, this is why I told BD to bring the matter up now. There is a lot of web-work going on at the moment, and as such it would be by far easiest to switch now whilst widespread editing of all files that could reference the name is going on, than should we choose to do it after all is finished and live. Should the vote be approved, the change would go ahead as part of the 'overhaul' - NOT immediately as it's simply too awkward to have to go about editing every file in the current setup whilst simultaneously working on the new one. I would expect a delay of a few weeks before the transition, just so that is clear.

As for the star, feel free to debate it if you feel strongly about the issue, but I think that may be a question for another time or thread. My thoughts again incline to the negative though, for the record.

Finally, on the issue of insulting individuals not present, Fen is correct. Let's keep it to a minimum please lest I be forced to moderate your posts. I think we're all mature enough to do this in a professional manner

To respond to Anubis, nobody needs the name to remind them of what we need to do or what we don't need to do. We've always known what's right or wrong. The only reason the goddamn name changed is because that jacksauce held it hostage from 99% of everyone who KNEW what was right. For them to GTFO.

It's not so much about reminders about what we do, it's more about having a name that is reflective of who we are and what we stand for. Sure, Society reflects our community focus - but it doesn't reflect what we stand for, who we are.

This is why the reason why you came into exile is so important here. If you came to escape people, it reflecting your wish to leave them behind you is not altogether meaningful - hence why I can understand your desire for change. But for me, it reflects what this group is all about and our stand for principles and what is fair - and ultimately, our friendship.

If it were just a case of "Keep it so we don't forget the SSC", then I would be all in favour of change. But it is deeper than that for me - the name conveys who we are, it represents what we stand for, and "Exiles" does that very appropriately imo.

[Plovske]

I two think a change would be best. and Shattered Star Society Sound very good.

Only thing is, if we make it short by SSS it kinda sounds to me like the Nazi SS. anyway that was the first thing that came to my mind when i read it.

I also agree with BD about the whole "why exiles" talk. back when i joined. it was mostly because i knew some members. but i can imagine that if i didn't knew any and just wanted to join a fun community it would have "scared" me of.

[BlackDove]

It's not so much about reminders about what we do, it's more about having a name that is reflective of who we are and what we stand for. Sure, Society reflects our community focus - but it doesn't reflect what we stand for, who we are.

This is why the reason why you came into exile is so important here. If you came to escape people, it reflecting your wish to leave them behind you is not altogether meaningful - hence why I can understand your desire for change. But for me, it reflects what this group is all about and our stand for principles and what is fair - and ultimately, our friendship.

If it were just a case of "Keep it so we don't forget the SSC", then I would be all in favour of change. But it is deeper than that for me - the name conveys who we are, it represents what we stand for, and "Exiles" does that very appropriately imo.

What? That's exactly what I was saying. It doesn't "reflect" anything. It's an appropriate name we took at an appropriate time when the name applied.

The name, doesn't apply anymore. And as such, it only detracts from the true point - see reasons above as to how.

I don't quite get the claim how it "reflects" for you what we stand for. We've always stood for the same things, =SSC=, =SSX= or any other name. And we'd stand for it even if we rename ourselves to "No Talent Ass Clowns". The name is not reflective of anything, it's there to identify us.

I don't really think you have a point here. It's probably due to you not being around before the name change.

[esd]

Only thing is, if we make it short by SSS it kinda sounds to me like the Nazi SS. anyway that was the first thing that came to my mind when i read it.

That's what I thought too.

That, and there's no way in hell I'm paying 800ms points or whatever to make my name match the group again.

That, and some stuff Anny's already mentioned, means I say "nay".

[Anubis]

We won't abbreviate it to =SSS= even if this passes. The fact that it is too similar to the SS is a very good point, and it would be wrong for us to adopt such an abbreviation given that strong connotation. It would also be incredibly unfair to any German members we have - the last thing we want is to alienate people because of the name.

=S3= or =S= would be the likely abbreviations I suspect. Though if anyone wants to suggest others they are welcome to.

[M.Steiner]

Can understand where you're coming from with the XBL name changing, esd, but i'd hope other people don't just vote no for that reason alone. I know you've said there are other reasons for you voting no that anny has already mentioned though, and not just that.
At least the option to change it IS there though for those that may want to. I've had SSX in my name on lastfm for a few years now too and i'll have to either stick with that should we change our name, or make a new account and start from scratch since the option to change it, or even pay to change it isn't there. Don't really like the idea of either if i'm honest but forgetting about that i do think the name change could be good for our group, as it stands now.

Oh and i don't particularly like the =SSS= abbreviation either for the same reasons mentioned so good call there, S on the other hand i like v much.

[El Oso]

We won't abbreviate it to =SSS= even if this passes. The fact that it is too similar to the SS is a very good point, and it would be wrong for us to adopt such an abbreviation given that strong connotation. It would also be incredibly unfair to any German members we have - the last thing we want is to alienate people because of the name.

=S3= or =S= would be the likely abbreviations I suspect. Though if anyone wants to suggest others they are welcome to.

I agree, it conjures thoughts of the Schutzstaffel. Or that we think we're snakes. SSSSSSSSS. Either way, trading sex for violence: not the best PR move

Most Lotro people outside the kin (and some inside- I think the similarity to SEX may have made some slightly uncomfortable) assumed & used SSE. If the Exiles remains & we still don't want to invite people to the "SEX website", why not use =SSE=?


If a name change is imminent, =SSC= can also stand for community, which is a word I do think embodies what the Shattered Stars are all about. Or =SSF= for friendship. (Alternatively, Benevolent Order of the Shattered Star is BOSS ) I'll admit that I haven't gone through the available history and have never asked- I did know why you all were exiles, but I don't know why we're shattered in the first place. Was there any particular reasoning behind the initial choice of "Shattered Star"?

[Anubis]

I'll admit that I haven't gone through the available history and have never asked- I did know why you all were exiles, but I don't know why we're shattered in the first place. Was there any particular reasoning behind the initial choice of "Shattered Star"?

I won't go into detail and write a lecture on it here, but an explanation can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/200308102232 ... eals.shtml

When we split off we didn't bring those ideals with us as part of a written doctrine for this place - we chose to focus more singly on the Friendship ideal which has worked well for us, but they were (and are) very much still believed in and upheld by us all - and the name still represents them to date.

Also, SSE is a good option for those like BD who dislike the SSX abbreviation should we end up keeping the name. I am wracking my brains to come up with an alternative to Society that sounds good, but so far I have got nothing

Edit: [15:26] <SSX-Anubis> mmm, Shattered Star Collective maybe, or Shattered Star Company? But that puts us back to SSC, if that is an issue

Anyone?

[M.Steiner]

Was there any particular reasoning behind the initial choice of "Shattered Star"?

The original SSC star design was split into different pieces and each of the 5 points represented one of our ideals, so maybe the design came first and the "shattered" part of the name came from that.. not sure. Always loved the Shattered Star name, but i've always preferred Confederation (and =SSC=) to Exiles.

[Edit - Don't like the sound of Shattered Star Company, not sure on collective but like Community too, and that's us all over. As i said above i've always prefered the SSC tag so i'd be up for that too.

[BlackDove]

I'll admit that I haven't gone through the available history and have never asked- I did know why you all were exiles, but I don't know why we're shattered in the first place. Was there any particular reasoning behind the initial choice of "Shattered Star"?

I won't go into detail and write a lecture on it here, but an explanation can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/200308102232 ... eals.shtml

When we split off we didn't bring those ideals with us as part of a written doctrine for this place - we chose to focus more singly on the Friendship ideal which has worked well for us, but they were (and are) very much still believed in and upheld by us all - and the name still represents them to date.

Not really. Exiles has no connotation with anything other than the fact we split from a group of people that we found unsatisfactory to have in our midst.

The reason we didn't bring any of the ideals over, was mostly because they should all be self-obvious. Are we any less honorable, do we have any less integrity, do we stand for freedom or equality any less now? No.

The only reason we didn't bring them over is because it removed a point of copy-paste similarity from the SSC that remained, and since they were all obvious anyway, the focus was simply put on friendship and loyalty.

Note that the star ever remains split in five parts.

Also, El Oso reminds me of another point I forgot; Yes, I considered =SSC= as in Community. I just went with S because I thought it was cooler and fresher. The fact is, we ARE a new entity now, and we could use an abbreviation we haven't used before.

But I'd be up for rolling back to =SSC= as Community as well. We can easily vote on whether or not it'd be =SSC= or =S= later. Like I said in the opening post, ANY kind of change for the better and saner is gold.

Note; SSE sucks, we are not an active encryption processing program. Company sucks, we're not a company.

Community works.

[Inquisitor]

By the way, when we left the SSC, I CANCELLED my SSC related accounts, including XBL.

Now you can rename them, even if it is for a (minor) fee, so thats a terrible argument There are other better arguments

[Magdalena]

Sorry, voting against this one. First and foremost I don't see a need for a change. I've handled recruiting through several games over the years since becomming a member of SSX and have never received anything other than positive commentary over our name. To me, having not been part of the original split, Exiles means more than the 10 hour spiel over what happened way back then, which I agree doesn't need to be part of recruiting. It's also about who we are today, that we're not part of that elitist mentality spread through so many games out there.

If explaining the name is that much of a problem, how about just redefining the meaning of our current name instead of changing it? There's nothing saying the meaning can't change over time as we change.

Here's just one suggestion as it's kinda how I view our name, though it may not work for everyone...

Shattered Star - Our members are much like stars, shattered across the universe but still part of one entity.

Exiles - While still gamers at heart, we are in self exile from the majority elitist gaming communities who only look at a person's skill.

If however we do decide to change the name, I'd be strongly against society being the third word, that to me screams elitist mentality and I don't think that's an association that fits our group.

[Isileth]

I really don't see the baggage attached to the name, I dont really think a new recruit will read to much into it.

If im honest I think the 3 links that are always around in the recruiting threads do a lot more damage than exiles ever could.

Specifically these parts

Right off the bat, if anyone is wondering why we are exiles or in exile, You should ask the members to shed light on that issue, preferably from more sources, because everyone holds their own opinion and reasoning for our position. The only important thing to say is that we are exiles by choice, not because we were forced to be.

Those who struck out from the SSC to become the SSX have experienced many of the things that happen to online gaming guilds/groups. We have seen mass exoduses, people causing problems for other members, server changes and people leaving only to come back shortly after. We have learned through sad experience how to stick together, and what it takes to allow a group of people to exist longer than your typical guild/group. The SSX is not going anywhere anytime soon.

When I first joined the SSX I had no idea of any past baggage, I didn't look at the name and think we are exiles from a past group where there was lots of problems. I just though it was a good name for a group.

However when I read through the history of the SSX (Thats put as recommended reading in most recruiting posts) thats when you start to put people off and get them thinking there might be a bit to much drama for their liking.


Now don't get me wrong, those 3 posts really do sum up the SSX well, but if your worried that the name would put them off I cant see how you can ignore a much bigger problem of constantly linking new players to posts mentioning past problems.


And really beyond that I think of myself as a Shattered Star Exile, I think to change that would unfortunately take something away from that feeling.

[El Oso]

I won't go into detail and write a lecture on it here, but an explanation can be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/200308102232 ... eals.shtml

Thanks Anny & MS for the explanations, very informative!

Note; SSE sucks, we are not an active encryption processing program. Company sucks, we're not a company.

No matter what's decided upon, we're going to share acronyms with SOMETHING!

Specifically these parts

I have seen those before & never thought much of it, but agree that a newcomer looking to avoid drama may be confused by them. People just need to remember that great things can be born out of ugliness. The Lotro group dealt with their own mass exodus & the remaining people are indeed assets to SSX, the only downside is a couple of the remaining people don't visit the forums.

The name doesn't matter much to me. I threw out some suggestions earlier but when all is said & done, I joined because of some great people & have stayed because of more great people... There, I said it.

[Padishar]

Ok first, I would like apologize for the 'wall of text' before you.
I felt this issue was important enough to not restrain myself from fully posting my thoughts.
Now a days, I generally try to keep things short and to the point.
With that said...

I stated Here back in 2005 when asked if we still considered ourselves SSC I replied:

I voted no back in Sep when this was started, but didn't know what to post as my true answer would be yes and no. Thought about what to say for awhile and the answer is actually simpler (and much shorter) then I had first imagined. I was looking at it from my own perspective and not that of the poll. Think it is just asking if folks are still apart of the SSC that exists now. Not the True SSC or the Idea/Ideal of what the SSC is/was.

Its Both. SSC and not SSC. FTW

*disclaimer*
My answer was above, the rest of this is/are the ramblings of Pad's accursed ill begotten mind...
Disregard all context to the topic at hand.
TY and Have a Good Day.

SSC is simply a title or name. Has no meaning to me. What we did, what we stood for, what we acomplished.... we brought with us. So WE are actually the SSC. Since our unequal; holier then tho; Triad of Eve-L Biased ruler pulled rank, we simply chose a new name...... SSX. Same people, same friends, same unity.... title changed. I greatly enjoy how we now focus more on ACTUAL friendship, then on rules and allowable (and continual) grievances/transgressions.

OK.

So WE are the SSC... or the SSX.... or whatever name we wish to call ourselves. We still do what we do.
Sure, there are things I miss from the past, but that is true with all things. As we live and grow, things change and you move on.

And other things stay the same

And I still feel the same as I did then.
So whatever we decide to name ourselves I will back.

Voting wise to change our current name, I don't see a problem with SSX.
But perhaps that is because I was playing SSX (Snowboard Supercross) on the PS2 when the Shattered Star eXiles formed
and had also been a BMX state champion here in MI for nearly a decade.
So that perhaps makes the S and X in SSX not sound like 'sex' to me.

The name eXile at the time seemed appropriate for what had transpired.
Time has passed however and I believe that our name has evolved with us.
As Mel (Magdalena) mentioned above, ever since the SSC became non-existent and we reacquired our Shattered Star birthright (hehe),
the eXiles part of our name has become more of a reference to our standing out from 99% of societies general elitist focused mentality,
and instead of us following that mainstream, we focus more on friendship and camaraderie.
So to say that the eXiles in our name has no meaning anymore I believe to be false.

If we do decide to change our name,
I am still quite fine with the SSC tag so changing to that
or even S3 (which BTW is the name of a department in a military Battalion) does sound kewl and is also fine.
Though SSS is quite inappropriate.

On a side note, whatever is decide I believe it unlikely that some of the MMO's we play will change their guild names
from SSX or Shattered Star eXiles.
Both for Identity/Reputation reasons and because of the lack of in game code support.
For instance I can't imagine trying to form a new guild,
do 344 character transfers and attempt to re-gather the in game resources
that is required to rebuy/resetup/transfer a fully functional guild bank.

Ok my 2c and Wall o Text is over...

[firedancer]

ok, here are my 2cents.

i also joined the group under the name SSX. and i did not care for
some time what is the history behind the name. i liked the name by
itself. like magdalena but it, i found the name eXiles as different,
unique not main stream and i liked it for it without the knowledge
where it originates from.

now when people are talking about changing it, i became very melancholic
remembering the first game i played with SSX (actually even tried to
reinstall them onto my computer which i failed unfortunately). so SSX
will ever stand for that memories. if we change its name maybe i will
lose something.

but i can understand better how people originally must have felt to leave
SSC and form a new clan. from that perspective i can understand very
well if some prefer to go back to SSC. i personally dont like all the options
with S3 or SSS, and can not imagine to change the license plate of bike
to these initals. (here is the current one
http://www.theo3.physik.uni-stuttgart.d ... bike-1.jpg