Princess Huhuran: Analysis.

[QuantumDelta]

For those who were there for our first two tries on her, grats you did quite well.


There are a few things we didn't understand, I couldn't see how a fight would be possible if the ranged dps were taking so much damage, I noticed I took much less than a lot of other people and this was not due to my resistances (I simply had no damage coming in) so I assumed it was 'locational' and 'grouped' - but I couldn't ID where it was coming from.


Well Gurd gave me that answer, it's the Noxious Poison(NP).

NP is an AoE Silence/DoT of Nature Damage that is cast on an area of the raid, typically, it seemed to be centred on those most clustered.
Next attempts on her we will need to spread out, the reason why our second attempt failed so badly, is because 4 priests got silenced at the same time, and kane and I were both in NR gear.

NPs damage is significant and shouldn't be ignored, it's about 2k with moderate resists from what I could see.

To this end we'll need to spread out a great deal more and use the entire cave when we do huhu, or pull her into the previous room in order to sort our spacing out before we fight.

None of her damage is cone - merely LoS, and none of her damage is controllable insofar as 'limiting it' the best you can do, is cope with it.


Further more;

Huhuran hurts in a few other ways;
She has an AoE Sleep she hits the melee with (more often than not).
This sleep is wyvern sting - a hunter talent, however if it's cleansed it will do 3-5k damage to the person cleansed, instantly.

For obvious reasons no one should be cleansed of this debuff.

With one exception;
Off Tanks.
Even the MT should be left slept, although we actually managed to cleanse the MT and deal with the damage (only via coordination on ventrilo) it doesn't actually matter that much how much agro the MT Has, only how much agro the rest of the raid has in proportion to the MT.

Second to the MT should always be an OT.

The OT and MT should be switching regularly, the debuff stacks I don't know what the stacks finish at but they cannot be allowed to stack particularly high, after about 30 seconds the damage became unmanagable.
Therefore the control of huhuran between the MT and OT is going to have to be far, far more exact than it is with Fankriss at the moment. *

The MT whilst slept does not generate agro but this is not a problem because the OT is constantly generating more agro - and is between the raid and the MT in agro generation.


(This requires the raids non-rogue/hunter DPS to know what they're doing).



Her final ability(s) is Frenzy.
Huhuran's Frenzy is unique.


When she frenzy's she AoE Poison Bolt Volleys, this volley is insane, and not to be underestimated, the hunters have to be spot on and cannot afford to mis tranq.

At 30% Hunters can no longer save us.
She Frenzy's permanently, this Frenzy lasts until the end of the fight (wipe or kill), and one or the other will happen, extremely fast.

As I said in the raid (Although some people obviously didn't pay much attention), the Mages, Warlocks they are our backup, they are our saviours at 30%, however they need to know that they will not get agro when they go all out and throw the kitchen sink at her at 30%.
This is where the trash fights end.
Starting from now the entire raid will have to start putting in a concerted effort at the same time on bosses.
Not 10 people trying to do everything, 20 people sort of trying, and 10 people who if they aren't already AFK, may as well be AFK.
Keep going on like that - and we will not clear any more bosses in AQ40.


At 30% Her permanent Frenzy Poison Bolt Volley does something in the order of 800 DPS. (~2500 DMG/3sec) on the closest 15 targets to her.

For obvious reasons this is not a fight you can sustain so control of agro until 30% and then the level of DPS required at 30% is the most important factors of the fight.

However prior to that point the raid must conduct themselves almost perfectly.
Treat her like Vael, one mistake, and we're done.

*It's fairly obvious that Fankriss is a 'soft training' for twin emps, and Huhuran is a 'Hard training' for twin emps, for healers more than it is tanks.
The difference is;
In Huhu/Fankriss - we control the transition in Twin Emps, the encounter controls the transition.
This means it'll have to be smoothe in all occasions.

[Zargor]

We simply didnt bring enough bug spray =/

[Galador]

Some concepts weren't very clear yesterday (not being able to be on Vent is an unfortunate handicap). This explanation makes a couple of concepts in this fight much clearer, thanks.

[base]

So can NP be dispelled? or does that cause mass damage too?

[Rinoa]

Your saying hunters can't afford to miss the tranq shot, but you have 1 problem there. Most of the hunters also stand in the wall, while I have quite some +hit gear on my rings and necklace, I also have lots of +hit on my normal GS + DS. This means if I'm wearing my gimped NR gear, I miss lots of +hit gear, which highers the chance of me missing my tranquilizing shot. . Any suggestions what to do about it?

[Sofia]

Warmonger is your friend rin
This lil mean gnome device, though removed ages ago, is rumored of beeing back ingame aswell!

Sofi has ~200nr aswell, incase there is need & if someone feels capable of handling her... she bites, watch out! (preferably kane & meline)

Im sure linkie / rishen / anyone wouldnt mind to sneak into AQ.

[Brittfire]

warmonger is our friend, but our staff is our nr and stam :O

it may well be a sacrifice we have to make tho to get that extra insurance

i do have a hint tho, any hunter that hasnt done the quest for the poison in aq20 and zg, go do it, +1% hit xbow, it'll help (hopefully)

[QuantumDelta]

"mis-tranq" = problems with order/organisation.

Although "miss tranq" is also bad in this fight.
If too many people miss, we're boned anyway.

Suggestions anyway:

Warmonger is a worthy sacrifice for your staff.
The scope that's quite widely craftable now is an absolute must. (You should probably get it anyway it's pro oO)

[Caspae]

Get enough hunters have 1-2 backup hunters solved..

Edit : Backup = fire on miss , if you didnt get that allready.

[Sondemon]

Or if you have say 4 hunters, and you only need 2 to keep her calm and quiet, how about 2 hunters fire everytime, pair them up, so that you have twice the chance to hit her.. Just a thought

[Caspae]

yeh Mate i havent been there So I donno his frenzy proc rate... If its slow enough you can indeed have 2 -2 shoots works better ofc

[Brittfire]

tis fast tranqing

also, i really hate having backup hunters, its so much easyer to just have the next hunter in line shoot, we have had a problem with crazy tranqing before, not funny

[Caspae]

lith look at our ssxhunter when someone misses the next in line shoots ages after or sometimes not at all : at a fight where not tranqing literally whipes a raid in no time , you dont want someone to ''wake up '' or '' forget '' a tranq mid fight... If you watn to do it the normal way... expect mental Mip coming after you with a green glowing stick for an*l doom yelling : U HAVE CRAZy? !
(j/k the last bit :P)

So : imo with our hunters backup works best
Suit urselves though , Gl tranqing <33333333

[Brittfire]

cas, u missed my point, if u miss a shot, its said in hunter cha, next hunter goes, if u have backuup hunters, u then ad confusion as to who should be goin next... what if the backup missed, who's their backup?


the whole point is... KEEP IT SIMPLE!


throwing people into the tranqing order is the fastest way to break it, its happened before...

[QuantumDelta]

People cannot afford to 'be asleep' and 'not tranq' if they miss their turn they screw things up for 40 people.


If, however they *miss their shot* it's simply a case of this;


----Frenzy-1Tranq----Frenzy-2Tranq|MISSED|-3Tranq----Frenzy-4Tranq----Frenzy-Tranq5|MISSED|-Tranq1


Instead of:

----Frenzy-1Tranq|MISSED|-Backup1Tranq----Frenzy-2Tranq----Frenzy-Tranq3|MISSED|-Backup3Tranq

The first diagram is more efficient than the 2nd.


In the first diagram, misses only 'accellerate' the order.
The order itself can be as long as you would like it to be.
You can have 18 tranqers and all only tranq once each or even maybe the 18th not tranq at all if you all hit, but you might miss a lot and have 10 people need to tranq before you hit.

By maintaining an order, but only ever accelerating it, especially with the new way tranq shot works, it's extremely simple, and very economic, therefore there can be no confusion.

The only time an order like that breaks down is when someone misses their turn (read; does not fire).
Which is why mipross gets so annoyed, because it really is not a complex thing to understand.

Additional note;

The new tranq dynamic is that your shot CANNOT FIRE unless the monster is actually frenzied.

This means that as soon as it becomes 'your turn next' (so as soon as you see "hit" or "miss" you spam your tranq button) until it tranqs, or it misses, report which one it did and then the next person can do the same.

[Rinoa]

Us hunters MUST use this addon then. It responds faster then humanily possible (it spams in hunter channel if it's a hit or a miss when you fire tranq shot, no need for macro's).

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addo ... t-187.html

I realize people are against mods like this, but the only thing it takes over is the macro spamming. Saves confusion and no people pressing wrong buttons. I've used it for 3 weeks now and tranqing has never been more enjoyable

[Calisto]

Even i was able to use that while being raiding on Rinoa for the first time ^^

[Caspae]

Us hunters MUST use this addon then. It responds faster then humanily possible (it spams in hunter channel if it's a hit or a miss when you fire tranq shot, no need for macro's).

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addo ... t-187.html

I realize people are against mods like this, but the only thing it takes over is the macro spamming. Saves confusion and no people pressing wrong buttons. I've used it for 3 weeks now and tranqing has never been more enjoyable

I ll play the game _myself_ .. Why bother if the pc does it all .. No fun in that Thanks for the link tho rin

[Brittfire]

cheers for clarifying the point qd

i'll try the mods, but i like my random macros :P

[Janell]

Also, everyone not in the wall will want to wear max ungimped nr to prevent unlucky deaths (you might take 2 volley's in quick succesion). Wall, max nr ofc. All that's left is learning the fight and hope for (force? ) people to give themselves a 110%.

[Rinoa]

You can play the game yourself, yes. If you do it the pureway you type after a hit or miss /5 I MISSED TRANQ SHOT. Without using macro's. The only thing this mod does is take over the job of macro'ing. It does not shoot automaticly or anything. It prefends misstells like people telling they hit while they actually missed. I strongly recommend this mod for this encounter, where tranqing is essencial...

[Eolas]

Tbh the discussion on whether mods/macros should be used bothers me sometimes. Unless the macros/mods are ones that literally reduce the player to just clicking a few buttons removing all the skill in the game, I don't think that players who use them should feel or be seen as less skilled than others more puritans who prefer to do everything on their own.

I personally play the game to have fun and if a macro or mod will make my life easier by automating certain mundane tasks I use it gladly - but obviously that's me. The skills that need to be learnt still remain - how to play - when to use one skill and not another - your role in the raid/party etc.

Don't want to sound too paternalistic and I obviously respect others who have a different play style or view of how the game should be played. <3 all!

[Dodotorpedo]

The only mod I use that really has effect on my playstyle is raidassist, and I really can't imagine playing without it, instead of just decursing cursed people I'd have to check on everyone too making it take atleast 4 times as long :P
In this case I'd have to agree with Caspae, it's more fun to give the msg if you missed or hit.

[Sofia]

No need to follow an overly purist approach in a game meant to be customized to your needs. I would draw the line only once the alteration is truely influancing your gameflow on a significant level. Custom UIs, RA, bandaging macros? ... coming to think of it: Its exactly the same as a quick hit/miss shout on vent & wont influence the tranq rota par se. Not as it would autofire or anything... you still need to be aware of your turn.

In wc3 you cant even bind the keys without editing a file beforehand. In WoW you have more freedom which is an advantageous feature i only welcome (in certain boundaries).

my 2c