Reminder - Language

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Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:42 am

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Anubis
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I've had a couple of people mention this to me over the weekend, and it is something I've been observing myself quietly for some time, yet have not acted on. I think we all need a reminder about our rules in regards to language, swearing to be precise.

We are a family friendly board, and will remain so. As a result, swearing is not permitted. The swear filter is currently not all emcompassing, and it has never needed to be, but it will be updated to a more blanket coverage should it prove necessary.

I know there is a question for some of us as to whether these rules need to change, but until such a discussion is had and concluded the rules remain in force. I have no objection to infrequent swearing should it be appropriate, but certainly not the casualness with which it currently seems to be being used in. Please, try to remember that we do have younger members of our community when posting.

Thanks.

- Anny
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:35 pm

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BlackDove
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What? Nobody else does it other than me. Why is this a public service announcement? Seriously, my feelings won't be hurt if you say "BlackDove needs to tone it down on IRC".

While on the discussion, the filter removes the word <censored>. The only reason you see it there is because I know how to get around the filter. If I didn't, the sentence would look like; "Seriously, while on the discussion, the filter removes the word <censored>." I guess being a homosexual is some kind of a moral depraving crime. Not family friendly at all. Homosexuals are enemies of families. Can't have the children seeing that. They might start asking questions, and then *GASP* you have to be a parent.

And while I don't swear all that often on the forums, it is kind of retarded to have a psychotic censor. Censors went out of style about six years ago, which was the moment we were able to make a distinction between corporate liability forums that have to conform to every rule and note of religious moral clauses, and sane people forums, which I'd hope we're apart of.

Seriously. How hard is it hurting anyone if I say the word fu11ck. How is it negative in any case? I get repeating it over and over and using it as a verbal insult should be prohibited (which I would gladly enforce if anyone ever used it in such a manner, which no one has in the last five years we've been here), but in a general conversation, where I'm supposed or inclined to voice outrage, what gives.

Can we talk about this? Like adults.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:12 pm

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Anubis
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(Just realised that posting images doesn't work as intended - I missed the resizing fix. Will apply that tonight)

For the record, it isn't just aimed at you else I would have done this in private ;) There are a couple of people, and I felt that it would be a good idea to post a general reminder about this to clarify the situation. And I am perfectly happy to debate the necessity of the filter, just so long as we all obey the rules in the meantime (and I suppose that this thread would fall within the realms of appropriate swearing, as you can't really debate the issue without mentioning the words).

On my part, when we first put the filter in place it was the right thing to do. We had younger members (myself included), and swearing is not particularly appropriate with youngsters around imo. Also, far more important to me, was the notion that boards full of swearing and obscenities hardly show a welcoming atmosphere for any new blood that may swing our way. We needed to be family friendly, and the swearing filter allowed us to be that (the fact that the filter can apparently be got around, which I was unaware of, is irrelevant generally - except by pointing out to us that we cannot solely rely on it).

I still feel strongly about the second and more important of these points, but I do recognise that we as a community have matured since the filter was put in place. I don't know of any of us now who actively use the forums and are under 18 (I am aware we have some very young WoW US members, but as far as I am aware they do not use the forums), and as such it is fair to say that the restriction upon swearing is less necessary - we are all adults after all, and as such do not need to be pampered to perhaps as much as we once did.

Despite strong feelings on the issue, I do also understand that the odd swear word here and there does not immediately paint us as arrogant, unfriendly morons who should be avoided. There is a careful line here, in my mind, where swearing *could* be a non-issue, provided it does not become too common or pervasive within our posts. If, and I repeat if, the result of this discussion is a general desire to turn off the filter then it must always be on the understanding that this fine line does exist - and abusing the privilage will only result in it being removed again.

I am loath to state either way which option I prefer on this issue, and I do understand both sides of the problem. In moderation, I do not see the harm provided - as BD says - it is not used to insult other members, but I also feel it could potentially do us harm amongst younger prospects. The thoughts of others would be welcome.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:57 pm

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I understood the forum filter was configurable now, so people could choose whether or not to use it.

BD, this is not HLP, please don't try and teach us any lessons.
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Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:17 pm

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Anubis
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Apparently the forum filter is configurable now yep. I did not realise this, and as such the discussion is pretty much void. If you look in Board Preferences and Display Options in the UCP you can turn off the filter. As such, you can swear, but I'll be updating the list so that those who don't want to see it don't have to.

Naturally, considering the option to avoid the filter is available to you if you want to use it, let's not go circumventing the filter any more mmk? ;)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:36 pm

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BlackDove wrote:What? Nobody else does it other than me
If it was just you, then only you would have been addressed. :) As it is, you are NOT the only one guilty of this. The only reason you feel singled out is because you put yourself in that position homes. :)
While on the discussion, the filter removes the word g11ay . The only reason you see it there is because I know how to get around the filter. If I didn't, the sentence would look like; "Seriously, while on the discussion, the filter removes the word <censored>." I guess being a homosexual is some kind of a moral depraving crime. Not family friendly at all. Homosexuals are enemies of families. Can't have the children seeing that. They might start asking questions, and then *GASP* you have to be a parent.
Don't be snide dude. You know VERY WELL why it's in the filter. And in the slight chance you do not, it's because people use the word in a negative connotation.
And while I don't swear all that often on the forums, it is kind of retarded to have a psychotic censor. Censors went out of style about six years ago, which was the moment we were able to make a distinction between corporate liability forums that have to conform to every rule and note of religious moral clauses, and sane people forums, which I'd hope we're apart of.
You are from a different area of the world and you think differently, that's fine and dandy, but this is no different than how we have been doing things for years. So why is it a surprise now?
Seriously. How hard is it hurting anyone if I say the word fu11ck. How is it negative in any case? I get repeating it over and over and using it as a verbal insult should be prohibited (like the above comic suggests, and which I would gladly enforce if anyone ever used it in such a manner, which no one has in the last five years we've been here), but in a general conversation, where I'm supposed or inclined to voice outrage, what gives.
I refer you to my previous statement. Why is this different now all of the sudden? We have been doing this forever and now you take the time to complain about it? We have little kids that do come on and read the forums, my nephew being one of them. I don't need him seein that kind of stuff. Family Friendly means just that.
Can we talk about this? Like adults.
First off I apologize for coming off crass but how in the world is swearing in conversation sounding adult? You can't carry on a conversation on a public forum without doing that? I mean was it necessary to mention that the animators of Bleach were masturbating, in regards to their 'filler' work? You could of gotten that point across without resorting to that my friend. That's all I'm sayin. IRC is one thing since rarely little kids inhabit the area, but the forums, where we display our organization, or society if you will, for all to see is something else entirely, and because of that, its beholden to a different set of rules and guidelines. Rules and guidelines mind you that have been there since it's inception.
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Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:10 pm

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Inquisitor wrote:I understood the forum filter was configurable now, so people could choose whether or not to use it.

BD, this is not HLP, please don't try and teach us any lessons.
Yeah, HLP wasn't about any lessons. I was just proving I was right (because I don't give a THIS WORD IS CENSORED about that place, so I just kept going regardless of anyone's wishes, because I had free time, a social experiments of sorts for my sake). There were no lessons involved whatsoever. The only reason the people who thought they were smart (they weren't) and thought that they were lessons, is because it was cut clear even to them that what they were doing was wrong, and that whatever I had to offer was what they needed to embrace, hence, "lessons" as you all refer to it. But that's hard to do when you're THIS WORD IS CENSORED TOO rotten to the core. And in the end, it turned out I was right, once they started just deleting things they didn't understand (like for example, I make a benign joke that's hard to get intentionally, and the incompetent moderator who doesn't understand it, deletes the entire post, then the administrator goes to hell and back to support his ignorant moderator [REMEMBER THE OLD BOYS CLUB? I SURE DO. YUM YUM], because they are all idiots, back to back).

The fact that you don't care about any of that doesn't interest me, nor whether you agree or not (I'd assume to you, that's all just a waste of time). But things are the way they are. And they happen to be the way I see them, consistently (hard data to prove it too). Which is just sad more than anything.

Back to the topic; having the "turn the filter on/off" really does solve this whole thing. Though I am still amazed about the word g11ay being included in the filter.

I'm the eye of the goddamn storm here.

It's not easy.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:15 pm

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BlackDove
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Here comes the great test.

<censored> SHIT <censored> <censored> SHIT! (I just had to add the first two twice).

EDIT: Well, even though I turned the censor off, I see <censored> as tags around the words I ABUSED I ABUSED I ABUSED in the sentence above (which are censored without me messing with them).

<censored> remains untouched tho, which is weird as hell. I'm not even bypassing the censor on that one.

Blame Anubis. Don't shoot the messenger.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:31 pm

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Anubis
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I see why you're still seeing it, and I'll try and solve it in the next day or so. Something else we'll need to have fixed - since I can't actually change the board setting to allow your choice on the word censor make any difference.

I'll update when it's fixed.

Oh, and I fixed the hole in the filter for that word you mentioned. Thanks ;)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:34 pm

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And now that I edited my post by removing the bypassage of the filter, my post looks like it was written by a rabid psychotic monkey.

So nothing different than usual in any case.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:21 am

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Testing. Pickles!

What? It's not censored? Such vulgarity.
;)
"Wenn der Herr die Stadt nicht bewacht, wacht der W11chter vergebens" (Psalm 127:1).

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:27 am

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If I had a brother with Tourette's, I would want him to be BD.
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Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:28 pm

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Fenavian wrote:
BlackDove wrote:While on the discussion, the filter removes the word g11ay . The only reason you see it there is because I know how to get around the filter. If I didn't, the sentence would look like; "Seriously, while on the discussion, the filter removes the word <censored>." I guess being a homosexual is some kind of a moral depraving crime. Not family friendly at all. Homosexuals are enemies of families. Can't have the children seeing that. They might start asking questions, and then *GASP* you have to be a parent.
Don't be snide dude. You know VERY WELL why it's in the filter. And in the slight chance you do not, it's because people use the word in a negative connotation.

Just to chip in here, there are so many words than be used perfectly normally and also in a negative way. Surely its better to deal with the few cases where people might use it in a negative way than just censor it all the time. As Anny has said, we are a fairly mature group here I would like to think we could trust ourselves to not run around swearing on every post if the censor happens to miss one. If at anytime it was done however you could than deal with the situation or even censor it if for some reason it does become a problem later on.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:54 pm

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... :nervous:



I like the filter by personal choice, really. I have *big* problems with censorship in any form. If anyone wants to blind themselves, that's fine, but I don't like seeing people run around trying to put blindfolds on the rest of us. Which is odd, considering I'm expected to help maintain what we refer to as standards around here (which we've fortunately not had much need to enforce yet).

I'm also in agreement about the word "<censored>"<old reference to happy/new ref. to homosexuality, for the filtees> as well, on a side note. Why not throw the word homosexual into the pot while we're at it? I've rarely seen it used in any non-negative aspect, *especially* on the internet. For that matter, lets throw in a few more offensive words like mexican and blackdove. Why stop there when we could censor everything anyone could possibly ever consider offensive at any point in the entire history of mankind. Point being made yet?

I have no illusions about what certain words are used for, but I also think people are rather silly when it comes to being offended. I would hope all our members would choose to behave maturely rather than be forced to. Anyone who doesn't wish to doesn't have to stay. Showing them the door seems like a better job for the mods. Maybe a bit more messy, but utopias are such a bore anyway.

And yes, I realize there's an obligation in our roles, but in my defense cursing on the forums is few and far between :p . In moderation, as Anny said.

Also, is self-filtering on by default? I haven't touched my settings since we made the conversion, and BD's posts are filled with <CENSORED>'s, much to my dismay.
hoott19 wrote:There are many drinks that are drunk by the people.So, the mostly, person like to have beer. They like because of it's benifit. The benifiti is that it hepls to reduce fat from the body and make the mental calm.
[WoW] This type of games should be up dated as soon as possible. Because there are many people that ere very found of such games. As these are very help full for make the brain power full and strong. So, mentaly strongness is the need of this presant era.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:22 pm

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Stracius wrote:For that matter, lets throw in a few more offensive words like blackdove.
THIS!

I am finally, Voldemort.

Is that what his name is? I WOULDN'T KNOW.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:25 pm

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Anubis
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By default, everyone is set to filter. It's pretty much like Sig Pics was/will be - you have to make the conscious choice to see them.

Also, yes I am aware that changing your preferences doesn't disable the filter yet, and hopefully that'll be fixed later on ;)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:30 pm

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Isileth wrote:
Fenavian wrote:
BlackDove wrote:While on the discussion, the filter removes the word g11ay . The only reason you see it there is because I know how to get around the filter. If I didn't, the sentence would look like; "Seriously, while on the discussion, the filter removes the word <censored>." I guess being a homosexual is some kind of a moral depraving crime. Not family friendly at all. Homosexuals are enemies of families. Can't have the children seeing that. They might start asking questions, and then *GASP* you have to be a parent.
Don't be snide dude. You know VERY WELL why it's in the filter. And in the slight chance you do not, it's because people use the word in a negative connotation.

Just to chip in here, there are so many words than be used perfectly normally and also in a negative way. Surely its better to deal with the few cases where people might use it in a negative way than just censor it all the time. As Anny has said, we are a fairly mature group here I would like to think we could trust ourselves to not run around swearing on every post if the censor happens to miss one. If at anytime it was done however you could than deal with the situation or even censor it if for some reason it does become a problem later on.
Right but this isn't the first time it has been discussed. It was laid out clearly by Ed the last time it was brought up. If you absolutely need to talk about homosexuals in a conversation then 'homosexual' is perfectly fine. :)
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Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:17 pm

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Stracius
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BlackDove wrote:
Stracius wrote:For that matter, lets throw in a few more offensive words like blackdove.
THIS!

I am finally, Voldemort.

Is that what his name is? I WOULDN'T KNOW.

:D
hoott19 wrote:There are many drinks that are drunk by the people.So, the mostly, person like to have beer. They like because of it's benifit. The benifiti is that it hepls to reduce fat from the body and make the mental calm.
[WoW] This type of games should be up dated as soon as possible. Because there are many people that ere very found of such games. As these are very help full for make the brain power full and strong. So, mentaly strongness is the need of this presant era.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:19 pm

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The problem is as I said, there are quite a few words like that.

Fag?
Bitch?
Pussy?

Now all 3 of those are used very commonly with no aggression or negativity.

"I'm going out for a quick fag"
"I had my bitch spayed"
"Awww look at that cute pussy cat"



Do we censor them straight off? Sure you can use different words, but apart from bitch I would say they are the most common terms. (Bitch obviously becomes more common in dog circles due to the fact its the proper name).


And as for <censored> itself, that's also used all the time with nothing negative behind it. Whenever its on the news its <censored> rights, in schools you learn about the <censored> rights movement.


But really I would like to think we wouldn't have any problems anyway. This isn't exactly some public forum where random people are registering all the time, anytime such a word was used negatively it could easily be dealt with. If you start going down the road of blocking any word that could be used negatively your going to end up with a lot of completely innocent posts being censored.

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:00 pm

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Disabling the censor in your UCP now works (just tested it) for those of you who want to take advantage of it :)
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:20 pm

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when this forum starts taking on serious discussions of the rights of homosexuals, and the word is used as something other than a epithet, then we can have this conversation again.

I look forward to that day. But as it stands, I prefer not to see the words used for "lulz" or shock value, or whatever, which is what we typically get, so even if its harmless and unintended, the bleeping should serve as a reminder to use a different word if you mean to say something is stupid or you disapprove.

"fag" has the same issue,worse, actually, nobody ever talks about "fag" rights, its either a smoke, or its a slur, and more often than not on the internet, its the latter. Had I set up the filter, I would have included it as well.

There are some 6 words on the list, its hardly an onerous filter. As a matter of fact, if its the same words I put in years ago, its specifically designed to allow for "adult" conversations. Bitcht, etc. You know, words adults need to use to communicate on a forum ;)

That is my strong opinion on the subject.
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Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:11 pm

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Inquisitor wrote:"fag" has the same issue,worse, actually, nobody ever talks about "fag" rights, its either a smoke, or its a slur, and more often than not on the internet, its the latter. Had I set up the filter, I would have included it as well.
I would have issue with that. In Britain, "fag" is rarely used as an insult compared to the level it's used to describe ciggies. To censor "fag" would be to prioritise US sensibilities... but as it is, it's not in there, so it's not really an issue.

I don't personally like filters either, but they do reduce the work a moderator needs to do. If a user knows words will be filtered, they'll either let the filter filter them for them, not use them, or try to circumvent the filter - as a result a mod only need keep an eye out for circumvention.

With regard to the "adult conversation" points... adults swear. Lots. In fact, adults seem to swear more than children, particularly in familiar company. We are all familiar company - this isn't our workplace, this isn't the family home... this is the pub. We're here for fun, and to talk to each other.

People swear lots in pubs. Kids are allowed in pubs.

So personally I don't mind a bit of swearing, provided it's not used as punctuation or to attack someone. I think frowning on perfectly normal language (which swearing is) is a waste of perfectly good angst :)
""I like my women like I like my coffee. In a plastic cup.""

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:51 pm

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I tend to swear more when there's a filter on forums, simply because I know people that gets bothered by it don't see it.

Bristolians swear like sailors, it's actually quite peculiar how little I swear on here ;P
You should hear ventrilo when I'm on there with my local mates, it ain't half abusive.

But that's just from the outside, as for kids...
...You should meet the kids around here, they teach the adults the swearing, PG-12 works in reverse!

Err, anyway, let the filter handle stuff.

As for Fag, probably about 80% of the time when you say that in this country is means a cig, that translate online too, it's only the Brits that have hung out with Americans too long that even realise what it means otherwise.

Hmm, PC-ness and PG-12ness is a social fallacy anyway, it's never stopped kids, never will.
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I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:07 pm

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<censored>

Re: Reminder - Language

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:11 pm

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That's a food :P
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

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