Group Membership Communications

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Group Membership Communications

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:11 pm

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Magdalena
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Just a suggestion mind you, but we might get a lot more participation in communicating between groups if the forms of communicating with one another were brought out of the dark ages.

Forums and IRC are great tools for some purposes, but they don't really promote 'getting to know one another' very well....

The ventrillo opened for the US-WoW group is open to all SSX members, but we'd be ok switching to a bigger global server if that's the direction we need to take.

I'm an old BBS junkie, so the typing obviously doesn't bother me... there are those I know that will avoid anything typed at all costs if possible... my hubby is one of them...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:24 pm

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Even he manages to post once every 6 months though ;)

IRC is unobtrusive, most of hte time, and is less active than a voice chat. Not much scrolling up in a voice chat, and its certianly not something I can justify idling on at work. And, text based chats (channel spam notwistanding) don;t suffer from the conference call everyone talking over everyone else :)

And the arguments of Ventrillo over Teamspeak make my eyes bleed.

We have a sponsored TS server, folks are welcome to use that, but, alot of times folks seem to be afraid of talking, less so with typing. I suspect alot of "I don't have a mic" is really "I am deathly afraid of other people hearing me" stage fright type issues. I would also be a little afraid solely relying on voicechat given the large number of ESL folks here. Some people are far more proficient at written english than they are at spoken english.

I agree, they are great ways to get to know people, hearing the tone of voice is a fantastic addition to communication. Use it when you can, its alot cheaper than a phone call :)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:10 pm

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Sondemon
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I personally don't like TS, never have, ventrilo has always worked better for me. But nvm that now. IRC aswell, not very liked by me, sure it works well to chat and all, but sometimes I just get lost in all that's being said, cuz if I tab elsewhere to do something, I just come back and have to read pages of stuff that ppl have said :P That's why I prefer talking over vent where you can talk whatever you're doing. Sure it doesn't work well if you work etc, I can see that point :P
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:16 pm

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QuantumDelta
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Quality wise Ventrilo > TS
TS is cheaper than Ventrilo afaik, but both the wow groups technically have extended ventrilo servers that could probably host a great many more people than they do.

How many people do we have on TS?

IRC is still my main communication thingy for most of the peeps in the SSX, that or MSN.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:23 pm

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See what I mean :)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:12 pm

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I've never been a fan of voice comms for several reasons which i won't go in to as i've said why many times in the past. Others are welcome to start using TS or Vent more as a community to communicate, but i wouldn't want to see voice comms become more active than our forums or irc. When everyone started using Vent in WoW:EU the activity on guild chat went down a lot, even outside of raids from what i remember. I'd hate to see something similar happen to the forums/irc, they should always remain the main focus point imo.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:55 pm

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Magdalena
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Using some not liking it works both ways... hard to require participation on forums/IRC which many people also abhor without them seeing others showing any effort in communicating the way they prefer.

I'm not too fond of forums or IRC personally, though I do troll through occassionally... find myself wanting to less though when those wanting those methods are so adamantly against communicating any other way and refuse to do so. If they can refuse that then why can't I refuse to type?

There are simply two sides to this debate which I believe both deserve equal credit in terms of communication...

Much like my mother tries to guilt me about not visiting her enough... in the 5+ years I've been in the same home, the only time she ever visited was when I was moving in. Communication efforts should work both ways.

PS - I visit her 1-2 times a year now... I think that's far more than my share for the 0 visits she pays me.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:08 pm

Achara
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I'm not sure Vent or TS could ever really work as the main method of SSX communication. We are in way too many time zones for that. Also, for discussions about rules, norms, etc. a written record of what was discussed and decided on is very important.

As a secondary form of communcation, I love Vent/TS. It's a lot of fun to talk with the SSXers from all over that decide to hop on.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:23 pm

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These are the primary. And while you abhor them, you do manage a minimum and you are considered part of the community despite the abhorence.

We're not replacing these, but we can certainly augment them :)

IRC and Voice are transient. Forums are semi-permanent. We do have a huge variety of people from all over the world and markedly different language skills (both spoken and written). It would be hard to require anything other than written and asynchronous.

The only "required" communication mechanism is here, and that "requirement" isn't particularly stringent.

I think you'll find folks like Wedge agree though, and prefer the sound of human voices. It DOES make someone alot more human if you can hear them. That's not a bad thing by any stretch.

This is the lowest common denominator, these forums. If you want information about us, you google and you visit. Darn hard to google a voice chat.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:26 pm

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Anubis
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Well all those who were part of WoW EU back when I played (mods especially ;) ) know exactly what I think of Vent/TS. I won't bore you all with the details. In short, I don't like it at all, and I stand with MS when he says that forums/IRC should remain the main focal point of our community.

Now despite this I don't have any problem with anyone who prefers to use Vent/TS. Never have, never will, provided that I'm not made to and there are other communications outlets I can use. You guys have just as much right to use TS/Vent as we have to use IRC, its a matter of personal choice though. If it left both chat venues semi dead due to a half and half split, we'd probably have to sort some compromise out though. Whatever happens though I'll be on IRC, not any voice comm system.

I would like to say though that if voice comms WERE to become another main chat medium for us that it should not attempt to replace the function of the forums. IRC as it is compliments the forums rather than replaces it. Whilst, as I've said, I believe everyone has the right to choose their own method of communication, I would strongly argue against any method replacing the importance of the forums we have now.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:12 pm

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At least he's open minded ;)

Make sure everyone takes deep breaths please, this is hardly a group shattering suggestion ;)

I think its a great idea to augment communications. We ARE people, and human contact includes voices (and not JUST the ones in my head).

You do end up learning MUCH more about a person when you hear their voice. Worth considering breaking the mold now and then and exploring it with the folks who should be your friends.

Mandating it is another thing entirely.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:20 pm

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Magdalena
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Never said replace... just count equally... those of ours at least that madethe list or came close are on voice comm almost daily wide open to communication and interacting quite well...

the vent info is up here on the forums for all members to see...

if someone were in irc that much and quiz and others got to know 'em in a good way, I'm betting they likely might have been able to get away with not getting the boot, knowing they're active... no consideration though for voice comm...

Did however stand to reason if voicecomm were to be countable we'd need a consolidated place to be... so some cross group interaction could happen there...

In short... replace the forums or IRC, no, but count for activity as much as IRC, yes...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:49 pm

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Inquisitor wrote:You do end up learning MUCH more about a person when you hear their voice. Worth considering breaking the mold now and then and exploring it with the folks who should be your friends.
Ehhh...to clarify. My stance against voice comms, and I am sure it is the same with MS' also, is not taken because I don't see people as friends. Nothing could be further from the case.

I don't use voice comms for many reasons, ranging from the fact that they tend to give me large headaches, to the fact that trying to follow everything that is said distracts me an awful lot from whatever else I am trying to do, to the fact that I like to watch TV whilst online. Again, this is something I went through a lot of explaining with back in WoW EU.

Please don't take it personally that I don't want to/won't use them.
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:52 pm

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SSX-Ava
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I really don't mind ssx'ers using a shared vent server. It'd possibly make a nice alternative to IRC and what not.
On the other hand I would hate to see little pockets of SSX outside of games just sticking to their own little place and not venturing onto the forums etc. Which I would foresee as a possibility if it was considered ''an equal alternative to the forums/IRC.''

After all the people in question did join the community knowing what was in store for them. :)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:54 pm

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I could see Voice counting for the same as IRC. But I don't see IRC or Voice counting as heavily as the forums. I see both, as was so deftly put by others, as an augmentation to the forums.

They build on the base, but we still need to have base activity to keep purpose in any other method of communicating.

Now the trick is in getting the IRC idlers to occasionally visit the voice servers, and vice versa ;)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:17 pm

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esd
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Whilst I'm a teamspeaker (and admin on the MGT TS server, so if you ever need anything just prod me in IRC), it's simply not viable as a standard. IRC I can leave on while I potter round the house, get my son to bed, etc, and it won't bother me, intrude or miss anything either.

Once Manny's in bed, TS is out of the question - partly because of the noise through the speakers (headphones aren't an option for long use on TS, due to health reasons) waking my son/annoying the neighbours/annoying my better half, my voice does the waking/annoying too as I'm having to enunciate to ensure people hear me.

That and foreign accents (inc. other UK regions and the US) make it tricky to understand what's said with the speakers turned down low.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:19 pm

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QuantumDelta
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A recommended or a community wide ventrilo server would be great in my opinion though, it'd be the same as IRC, we have a TS one, sort of.. but there are those of us that can't stand their codex ^^;;
Sad part is Vent sacrifices Mac compatibility for it's quality >_>

I would really like to see it promoted along the same level as irc, but currently no one does.
I'm pretty sure the entirety of the SSX WoW US and most of the SSX WoW EU groups would echo that, at the very least it should get a link off the main site like IRC does, more people (!) who are members use the voice programs than use IRC on *individual* servers, let alone if they were combined, and even then IRC is populated by some individuals that reside on both, it seems small minded to not have a combined or recommended server.

Meh.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:22 am

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I wouldn't be able to be on it much. Not at the office, and at home I am gaming in the living room ;) So am afk, ALOT. I have mac laptop in the living room.

I can scroll up in IRC.

The biggest single problem, other than Anny's headaches, are the near religious wars with Vent versus TS. I have always personally preferred TS, its clients are light and operate on many OS' its one of the reasons MGT runs one, we could fire and forget about it and all our users could connect.

So its a tough one, I don't MIND voice chats, I like them, alot, they add alot to the game experience and do give you a real sense for the people on the other end of the mic. I LOVE Xbox Live because they make people add voice to their games. They just tend to be less convenient then their text based breathren.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:26 am

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QuantumDelta
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I do agree, you wont see me disappear off irc (unlucky :P) even if we did, but it would be nice to have cross-group voice comms on the same level, for those who can/are inclined, I'd even chip in with the costs (though I expect atm the existing eu or us servers for wow could take the general membership unless TS really has a huge presence....which was never the impression I got.


I realise EU/US wise we'd never have enough room for 2x40mans + the rest of the organisation, but I suppose that's the reason we never merged the servers, I shall slap ze plovske and see what his server is capable of.. check the tech before we decide what we're doing?

Also, what's the current TS servers max-capacity and stuffs?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:29 am

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QuantumDelta wrote:I realise EU/US wise we'd never have enough room for 2x40mans + the rest of the organisation,

...


Also, what's the current TS servers max-capacity and stuffs?
Not sure of the total, but you can set a room to have a maximum of 256...
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:24 am

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A keyboard is detrimental and instrumental in using a computer, and everyone has a functioning one 100% of the time. The case with a microphone, is significantly different.

By insisting upon a means of communication that isn't available to a 100% of the membership, the only thing you're endorsing is division and exclusion.

I have spent four times the money on my headphones so that I'd have a working microphone (as opposed to crappy ones that just played sound, and were four times cheaper) only to find out that I can't use the microphone because my sound card is of low quality since it's affixed to the motherboard, and I have to buy a PCI entry one to possibly get the microphone to work. So it's not that the means of communication are not available to me due to lack of trying, it's that I don't have a sufficient amount of money to waste on a non-essential component just so I could satisfy someone's whim for being too lazy to type.

As far as communication going "both ways", personally, I think just with that statement you seem to have a bigger problem at hand if you actually think that there are any two justifiably crossing bases regarding the official methods with which we've been communicating for the past decade.

The new rule that removes everyone who isn't keeping in touch with the community as a whole, means just that; adapting to the proven methods that the whole uses (or is supposed to use) since it was established. It does not mean that the whole can or should adapt and acknowledge inferior methods of communication (reasons outlined above in personal experience) just to appease a group that has absolutely no valid reason (remember, "hating it" or "abhorring it" is not a valid reason) whatsoever to refuse using existing methods of communication.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:23 am

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ppl should be aware that all the ventrillo/TS servers i have seen in
SSX do NOT support mac systems. (as a permanent mac user,) i really
do not like the idea to rely on a system which depends on the system
ppl are usting.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:37 pm

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I keep seeing a belief posted in responses to this that would lead some to believe that we are pushing for Vent/TS to be a main requirement for being part of the SSX. However, the initial post does not reflect it, so not sure what is the big issue here.

Lets throw up some links to pages with information on how to join our Vents and TS servers that are up and running. List SAs so people know who to contact if there are problems, and what geographical region they are for. (Anny can you put the pages together for us?) Throw a couple links on the side of the main SSX page, and be done with this.

Let people choose for themselves how they want to communicate. Forums are the main standard form of communication for the SSX, everything else just helps.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:48 pm

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I have no problem throwing together a couple of Vent/TS Guide pages like the one we have for IRC etc. No big problem there if that's what people would like.

I will need the server and version info of the various servers we have out there though, and what groups they cater to. If people can get that info to me I'll get a page up ASAP :)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:16 pm

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Great idea.
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