Raiding in SSX?

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Raiding in SSX?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:30 pm

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Magdalena
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After having yet another family member leave for raiding, I've been having some discussions with a few people about what's going on and what we can do as a family to try and better fit those family members that want to see end-game content in and how to solve the problems we're having.

I've been asked to bring this discussion here and open it up to our members the possibility of having a raiding group within our family rather than having family leave to find a raiding group.

The thought behind this is though many keep quiet until it's too late, there are those among us that really enjoy raiding and have worked really hard to get their characters to the point they can do so.

We would like to get this group of people together and figure out first who all we have that has a desire to raid and wants to put forth the effort to do what it takes to get through today's content.

For raiding purposes only this group will set up guidelines for each instance, what is needed before entry, what class make-up is needed to complete it, and will have goals such as loot priority to those who are playing a certain role to get geared for the next instance having the same role etc.

Days and times for raiding are to also be discussed within this group to find the best time for them to get together.

We need to know however who has both the desire and ability to be part of this though in order to move forward. This means you have not only a desire for going into end-game content but also the willingness and ability to put forth the time and effort required.

Undrin and I have been volunteered to get the ball rolling on this as we're the first to voice out that we'd like to do this. We're also opening this to family members who have left the guild in search of raiding for game experience, but would rather be in SSX and have the experience, if they have kept their family ties.

None of the rules formed within this group will affect anything outside of their raiding, but they will have control over the raiding aspect itself.

Other more casual players will still be able to form raids separate from this as often as they want, and I know those pushing for progression will be willing to help out in those as much as they can when they're not raiding.

We're getting the ball rolling, but those of you that want to raid and want this to happen are going to have to speak up now. We have to know who you are and how many we have that want to and can do this.

Just a few aspects that will likely apply in this group:
Gear Requirements
Time
Spec Requirements
Class Requirements
Ability to take instruction and change when needed

The goal is for an efficient friendly raiding environment within SSX.

Please let us know if you' can be part of it. The first job of this group will be to set up Gear Requirements for their Kara runs and what time to do the run for progression and post it to let the rest of SSX know.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:12 am

JonisRahl
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Thank you for the wonderful post Mel, I am in Lets get the fun rollin!! :thumb:

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:48 am

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Anubis
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A raiding guild, or an element of the guild becoming heavily raiding oriented is a....tricky proposition.

Back when WoW-EU was alive and kicking the issue came up as to where the guild could be taken to avoid disbanding, and the option of a raiding guild or a split of the guild dedicated to raids came up. Now I know that this is nothing like the same situation, and the proposition doesn't seem to be as extreme as either of those suggestions, but there may well be similarities that you should consider.

Think about how implementing this would affect the group as a whole. Going into something with best intentions is all well and good, but things don't always turn out that way as we have seen so many times in the past.

Ask yourselves questions:
  • If you didn't get enough people internally to form a successful raiding section would you have to recruit people specifically for raiding? Are you comfortable with that, if raiding has never played a large part in recruiting before?
  • How would you deal with people specifically trying to get around you and into the guild just to get into the raiding section rather than for any real interest in the community?
  • How would you classify casual? If someone who could only get online for one day a week but still wanted to raid applied to the raiding section would you be happy letting him in?
  • Could it cause an unwanted division between the sections? What if casual players want to raid every so often but never could because those they would need to help them are always busy with the 'raiders'?
Talk about it here as a group before you implement it, debate the finer points. Think about the 'what-if's, draw up a full set of guidelines and post them so that you can stick to them. Consider if and how some of the ways you operate, such as recruitment, may have to change or have firmer guidelines laid out.
Take it slowly. Taking the time now to plan it out carefully and consider all the options and you might be able to avoid any bumps in the road later on.

I'm not shooting this idea down by any means, just encouraging caution. Moves like this can force large changes upon groups, wanted or no. Be sure that you're prepared to confront those changes should they arise.

- Anny
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

:)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:49 am

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Goliathspet
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i wld also like to look into this.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:55 am

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Zepol
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Ill be able to squeez in a day, maybe two to help you guys out, im a big time farmer, so if you need any herbs or mines to create pots let me know and ill gather them up whenever i have a chance.

I have raided before and know what is needed for my char which atm i am trying to beef up.

Ithron - Fire Mage at yer service.
Here is my Specs
(RIP-You will never be forgotten)Zepol lvl 70 Lock- Afflication and Destruction.
(Reborn)Zepol lvl 80 Mage - Arcane (Akama)
Ive lvl 80 Shamman - Resto/Elemental(Akama)
Faeith lvl 80 DeathKnight - Frost Tank/Blood DPS(Akama)
Never give up before attempting it first.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:33 pm

Callawey
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Ret. just got a big buff in 2.3, so hopefully I can be considered as DPS. If not, I have pretty solid healing and tanking sets as well. I have done all three roles in Kara already so I am pretty flexible, but ret is where I have the most fun. With the new buffs, plus 75000 honor and 5000 arena points, I will be geared for Zul'Aman, let alone Kara.

Kevin (Blackjack) and I have been discussing our options as far as seeing more end game content as well, so I feel the timing of this is good. We have hoped for some sort of schedule for quite some time. As people's focus has seemed to shift to alts instead of mains, we were getting a bit discouraged that we would never see Prince's corpse.(or "my" gorehowl..lol)

With patch 2.3, most classes got stronger. With the new gear soon to be available, most people should gain even more strength. A solid core of 10-15 guildies concentrating on clearing Kara should be quite successful.

This is great news. I love this guild and I want to see us move forward together, not slowly seeing our most progressed players with different tags above their heads.

Let me know what you would want from me, spec and time wise, and I will consult my people (wife, daughter and dog) to work out the particulars. :)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:53 pm

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Axavier
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I'm for it.
Ax is geared to tank Kara, Jaysen is geared as well for shadow spec, but the healing gear is coming along too. Nutbar is still a work in progress gear wise, but is attuned for Kara. Whatever is needed.

Only problem I have is Time as I work continental shifts and work every other weekend, one a month being a nightshift weekend. Not big really as that only means I would miss one weekend a Month.
Weekday raiding just depends on what shift I'm working or just got off of as well.

Hope we can get it going.
Ciao for now.
"J"
"Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition."

"You tell kids today that, and they won't believe you. No, no, they won't."

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:26 pm

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Magdalena
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Anubis wrote:A raiding guild, or an element of the guild becoming heavily raiding oriented is a....tricky proposition.

Back when WoW-EU was alive and kicking the issue came up as to where the guild could be taken to avoid disbanding, and the option of a raiding guild or a split of the guild dedicated to raids came up. Now I know that this is nothing like the same situation, and the proposition doesn't seem to be as extreme as either of those suggestions, but there may well be similarities that you should consider.

Think about how implementing this would affect the group as a whole. Going into something with best intentions is all well and good, but things don't always turn out that way as we have seen so many times in the past.

Ask yourselves questions:
  • If you didn't get enough people internally to form a successful raiding section would you have to recruit people specifically for raiding? Are you comfortable with that, if raiding has never played a large part in recruiting before?
  • How would you deal with people specifically trying to get around you and into the guild just to get into the raiding section rather than for any real interest in the community?
  • How would you classify casual? If someone who could only get online for one day a week but still wanted to raid applied to the raiding section would you be happy letting him in?
  • Could it cause an unwanted division between the sections? What if casual players want to raid every so often but never could because those they would need to help them are always busy with the 'raiders'?
Talk about it here as a group before you implement it, debate the finer points. Think about the 'what-if's, draw up a full set of guidelines and post them so that you can stick to them. Consider if and how some of the ways you operate, such as recruitment, may have to change or have firmer guidelines laid out.
Take it slowly. Taking the time now to plan it out carefully and consider all the options and you might be able to avoid any bumps in the road later on.

I'm not shooting this idea down by any means, just encouraging caution. Moves like this can force large changes upon groups, wanted or no. Be sure that you're prepared to confront those changes should they arise.

- Anny
I understand and appreciate your concern. In this game unfortunately there is no 'perfect' solution, anybody looking for that is going to be disappointed.

This is mainly though to get the group that wants to do this together to hash out guidelines needed, answer the what-ifs, and get information posted up on it for everyone to be able to look through.

Since the rules haven't been hashed out yet, I can only effectively answer one of your questions, but can assure the others will be thought through and discussed as well.

The one I can answer is on recruiting. The goal is that this should have no impact on the guild outside of the raid itself. The idea is best thought of as a rp... once you step through the instance doors, you're in a different world with its own set of rules... step back out and you're back in the SSX world. With that in mind, recruiting guild members specifically for this purpose only won't be allowed. If there aren't enough people, another method will need to be used to fill the spaces and that definitely needs to be talked out. If someone seems like SSX material outside of the raiding, then it may happen that they join up, but they won't be considered solely on their actions during the raids.

This wasn't a good idea pre-bc simply because the numbers required back then could take over the atmosphere entirely. We don't need 40 people to make this team work, just 10. More than likely, we already have the 10 among us, seeing half that in the first day and more that responded to me directly.

Unfortunately, with only 10 people allowed in at once, some may get left out. The person that can only get on one day a week may not be able to get the gear etc required to make it through. However, knowing this group the way I do... I know every person that wants this will come back to content once cleared and geared above it and take through those that couldn't make it. Depending on the situation, it may be they can only take through 1-2 others at that time, but don't think we'll know that until we're there. The majority also have alts they wouldn't mind bringing with another group at another time, which can be done too with the understanding that right now the alt group probably isn't going to get very far at all.

The fact is though that some of our players are at the point they need something like this, and they're good people... not out for the loot in it, they've seen everything up to a certain point and want to see and do everything. While not as bored with 70 yet, I'm one of those that sat at the same content for a very very long time at 60, and understand the restlessness involved. Up until now, their only solution available has been to go to other guilds, which most don't really want to do but it's the only way they've found.

I don't forsee any of the group that will want this to be a nightly event or anything like that, and most of the prep-work is in the initial gear and a certain character awareness and skill, so other nights they'll still be running other aspects of the game with those that can't get into the raids, helping them get their gear up etc if they want to or doing pvp. Anything that happens other nights will likely be spur of the moment like Zul'Aman last night and all would understand it's completely casual at that point.

There's still a lot of work to do, but most in this boat have gone through these discussions before and our population has dwindled back down a lot since BC, the good thing in being so slow is that we also lost the majority of those that were just here for purples, and they're fairly easy to see which is which as those that were just there for that have held no communication doorways really. Those that are still SSX at heart, you can't get away from them... they're there running with the group just like they were before, still popping into vent having friendly funny conversations and what-not. Some of them seem to stalk me no matter where I go in WoW... like the two last night that caught me killing little hordelettes outside of Zul'Aman or the one that flew over the entire area while I was leveling until they found me and tried to act like they accidentally ran into me... You know who you are... :P

I don't forsee the clash of the titans that happened with EU and to a smaller degree US (after BC).

The initial meeting of the minds though will need to be over vent before typing it out here, simply because there are far fewer misunderstandings and it greatly reduces the chances of things coming out wrong and causing a battle over this.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:22 pm

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Anubis
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Don't feel you have to come back with specific answers to my questions, they were more suggestions of things to get you guys thinking about aspects you may not have considered that I felt were important (though you may well have considered everything I brought up already). I was trying to highlight the wide range of issues that could arise that you may want to consider more than anything else :)

I would certainly like to see answers and guidelines etc posted up here when they are formalised, if for nothing else than to keep things clear and out in the open for the whole group. But it is by no means a requirement.

The important thing to me is that discussion and consideration of potential issues takes place and that the rest of the group is clear and in agreement over what guidelines are setup. The last thing we want is you being left two weeks into the idea going "Well we didn't see this coming, what do we do now?", or with a group member feeling hard done by by the whole arrangement.

WoW is a difficult game for casual groups admittedly if you want to keep members happy but avoid the slide into a raiding group. Deciding before you start as you have done that it won't affect external policies is a good start, and you're already setup with the advantage of having such a closeknit group - less chance of fractures due to raiding issues. But of course, that doesn't guarantee the implementation will be trouble free.

Take your time, hammer out the details until the group is happy with them, and then maybe if you do hit a bump it will be something easily dealt with rather than the drama that so often surfaced in WoW EU. I'm confidant that you're right about the fact that this won't mean another clash of the titans - but it never hurts to be careful and take steps to try and nip it in the bud before it ever becomes a possibility.

- Anny
"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Forever an eXile and proud of it!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:36 pm

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lili
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I'll be more than happy to help.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70

I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.

raid

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:53 am

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RagingDeath
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I would also like to participate. Its been tough of late to play with so much thats going on in my life right now but will try and hewlp out when i can.
Duty is heavy as a mountain, Death is lighter than a feather.


warrior

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:43 pm

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undrin
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As Mel stated above I am more than willing to get this ball rolling. I and many others started talking about this recently and see a need to set up structure and fomalities so we can move beyond the point we are now. I can't wait to get the details hashed out.

Auravil is Geared and ready for DPS in Kara.
Undrin is attuned with some gear needed, he can do the DPS required for Kara but I do not belive he is strong enough DPS wise to bring him at this point. I will be upgrading him in the next few weeks to get him up to snuff.

Thank you Anubis for the postings we will be sure to and have been disscussing the details. We do not want to turn into a "Raiding Guild" what so ever. I appreciate your input in this.
Xbox One: Auravil come and visit sometime!

Couldnt agree more!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:05 pm

Mike D
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I think this would be a great step for our guild and I am looking to participate in anyway possible. I believe I have the gear to heal all the way through Kara... if not, I will by the time the new season starts!

Lately I have been toying with the idea of switching to Ret (and I even respecced), but its not really for the "fun" aspect rather it is just something new and exciting. I love healing you guys in raids but I guess it just got a little monotonous basically running the first four bosses in Kara. If we do this as a guild I will absolutly remain a healer... cus it's what I do : )

see you guys in game! BTW I am here to raid today and tomorrow to get this thing going!

OH, and lets drop curator tonight to get some more T4!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:37 pm

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ScarletRahl
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I am pretty good healing spec on my priest and my druid is ok. I am willing to help where I can. Right know real life has been pretty hard considering My Mom is having surgury on Monday the 19th. But I will do anything to help my family out cause I love you guys
;)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:52 pm

Blackjack
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Well, Robb and Mag sum up my feelings on the matter. I remember the days of Friday night MC runs and regardless of how busy things were in life I looked forward to the "scheduled" raid night, and could plan other work around it.
What I don't want to see happen is what happened to STNY last year. I left for Kuwait and came back to a guild that had maybe 4 people left that played regularly because of the hard core raiding drama and problems.
Ever since you guys welcomed me with open arms and let me run MC every Friday I felt you all were my new family, and I want to see us succeed. I keep seeing our high-end people leaving only because we can't progress in raids... so yes, lets move forward on raid progression.
With full time school after work and reserve weekends (oh and hunting season) I might miss a few nights here and there but for the most part you can count on the big feathered Doomkin to be there. Well, until my wife links some form of shocking mechanism to the WOW icon. It's not funny, I think she is seriously considering it. lol
Oh, Opening day of deer season is tomorrow, so I will be gone tonight and most of this weekend. sry
Bagooooooock!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:03 pm

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Idaten
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I'm in and happy to help however I can. :thumb:

I'm pretty sure Idaten is kara geared, and (I'm told) that Aleste is good for SSC and Eye. I still can't get her to do the dps my brother can tho. Guess I need more practice.

I've secretly been hoping we'd push harder in kara, so this is welcome news to me.
I too always look forward to friday night runs, so it's pretty frustrating when we can't get a full group of 10.
I know that's no one's fault and that any new raid rules may not change it either, but there it is. :sweat:

Anyhoo, I hope we can figure out a good balance and that people don't get left out. Good luck ;)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:52 am

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Padishar
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Thx Mel for posting this thread,
I also wish to help keep us moving forward.

Here is an example of our last push.

FYI when Season 3 goes live,
on the 27th I believe (I think it got moved from the 20th due to Thanksgiving),
I should have:

3 pieces of Season 1 Gear,
2 pieces of Season 2,
1 Piece of Season 3 or 2 more Season 2 pieces (decisions decisions)
Z-PumpkinRing (hehe)
4 Kara Pieces

:cool:

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:15 am

Lilleth
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I'm in :thumb:

Fri/Sat (maybe Sun) nights from 8pm-1am, I'm your girl.

I've been enjoying MT immensely ;D

Still working on the tanking gear (healing gear is secondary...I'm piecing together PvP gear, Kara gear and heroic gear just to try to keep it up...but tanking gear is my priority atm). I just got my 2nd feral season 2 arena piece, have 2 pcs of the PvP honour gear...other than that, I have some Kara drops and crafted epic gear, plus some rep gear. Need heroics for Badges, since most of the nifty new pieces I want are 75 badges apiece.

Great post, Mel...and great responses so far. This is something we really need to do. We need to be clear with all aspects of our raiding guidelines, so everyone in the guild knows what to expect.

These BC 10-man raids are very difficult. They put the people leading the raid into a very difficult position when there are only 10 spots to fill but more than 10 guildies wanting to be included. Especially when half those spots need to go to specific class types (ie healing and tank). That really leaves only 5 or 6 spots...and a careful balance of dps classes are needed.

Once again...I hope all the guildies that have been wanting to raid will READ the forums (and those that do, please direct others here!!) and take the time to respond. We need your input. We need to know what you're thinking and how you're feeling.

If you aren't reading/posting on the forums, you may be passed up when the raid invites are going out--because we haven't heard from you! Don't depend on Guild Chat entirely...many times, your comments are simply missed (PvP, instancing, trade channel spam...lots of times Guild Chat simply slides by without everyone seeing it).

I think one of our guidelines should be having everyone who wants to raid each weekend sign up in the forums during the week.
/purr
******
Lilleth 85 Night Elf Druid-Resto (Mannoroth)
Raevynn 85 Night Elf Hunter (Mannoroth)
Zyllah 85 Night Elf Death Knight-Blood (Mannoroth)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:56 pm

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Zepol
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I am slowly but shurly moving up in gear.

But I do need a little help with getting attuned, currently i need durnhold along with a lil BM so i can get the key.

I am currently Honored with the following factions:
- Cenarion Expedition
- Honor Hold
- Kurenai
- Aldor
- Sha'tar

I am 25% away from being honored with Lower City, I worked on that for a bit this weekend.

If there is anything in particular I should be working on please point be in the right direction.

Thanks
Alan
(RIP-You will never be forgotten)Zepol lvl 70 Lock- Afflication and Destruction.
(Reborn)Zepol lvl 80 Mage - Arcane (Akama)
Ive lvl 80 Shamman - Resto/Elemental(Akama)
Faeith lvl 80 DeathKnight - Frost Tank/Blood DPS(Akama)
Never give up before attempting it first.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:01 am

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Padishar
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We will try (and have been trying) to avoid gear checks as much as possible, tho it seems inevitable at some point.
So to try and keep us all on the same page, I have a 'work in progress' list of min requirements by class before being Kara Ready, so to speak.

I will edit it down first before posting it (its like 15 pages atm).
So for now you can just ask me if you are on your way to 70 and want to know what you should be aiming for once you get there.

The easiest advice tho, even before that is to just do the regular instances while you are leveling to 70 and get your set pieces from there. The set pieces in themselves should get you fairly close (if not ready).
Don't know what the set pieces are or where they are located?
WoWiki is your best friend ;D
Also PVP a little and build your rep up with various factions. Many factions will let you make or buy sweet purples once you get your rep up with them.

There are MANY variables when it comes to spec and class mix and gear readiness.
So it is not easy to have a this is what all must meet type of scenario's. But hands down the first and foremost thing that anyone will look at to tell you if you are good to go or not is what?
If you are in greens and non-set piece blues then you ARE undergeared.
That is hands down a gimme.

Remember: ask ask ask.
If one officer doesnt know,
they most likely know who to direct you to who does...

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:49 am

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QuantumDelta
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If you need a hand with that list bro, feel free to throw it at me <3
"Then, to hide their frailty, they hurt those who are kind.
I whisper farewell to this ugly world and dance nimbly with brilliant wings of red."

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