New Raid rules

Our US players can be found on the Mannoroth PVP server!

Moderators: Global Moderators, WoW =US= Moderators

New Raid rules

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:17 pm

Eveangel
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:46 am
I understand the new raid rules to reward the people who come on and contribute to the raid. I also agree that there are people who come on for certain things then leave so it's nice to reward the people who doesnt do that. I don't agree with giving an attendance to people who attend the guild meeting. there are people like myself and joel who will never be able to make it to the guild meeting because of the time and day that its on. We will always have to work on sat at 5:30. you can't give a reward base on people's availability to be online. don't punish the people who give their 100% during the time that they can be online and play. If i can be on at that time believe me i would be. change the meeting to firday then I will be on vent giving my two cent. don't come up with ways to benefit people who can be online at certain times. I understand more people should be involve but that can mean different things. taking an active role in SSX doesnt mean being online on Saturday at 5:30pm. Why not post questions and ideas on forum and let people help out that way. Utilize the forum more for questions/suggestions/opinions on topics that officers feel should be mention at these meetings. that way it gives people more time to answer and it will produce more results then just from people who shows up on vent meetings on saturday. Its not fair for people who CAN'T attend these meetings to always be 1/2 attendance behind compare to others, which will affect percentage and in the end looting during raids.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:59 am

User avatar
lili
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: The hospital
Contact:
Ok me tossing in some ideas. How about if we alternate weeks one weeks make the guild meeting before friday night raid and the next week make it before the saturday night raid. The main reason why we want more people to come to the meetings is that members gets voted in during the meeting and sometimes the people on didn't have a problem with one initiate while somebody else did and if that's the case we don't want to vote in that initiate yet but if the person with the problem doesn't show up at a meeting them we would never know. Also I encourage everybody if you do have issues with initiates please let an officer know the reason right away. We don't want some one to be voted in if there's an issue.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70

I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:17 am

User avatar
Idaten
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:23 am
I have a question.

Which loot sheet will the guild meeting attendance be applied to? :sweat:
Could you also post the reasons for choosing one sheet over the other?

Thanks

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:38 am

User avatar
lili
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: The hospital
Contact:
If we do make it apply to a loot sheet, it would most probably apply to the MC loot sheet since that is the instance we have on farm status and is raiding on a regular basis. Again these are topics we need to talk about in more detail before finializing them.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70

I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:36 pm

User avatar
Alorah
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:28 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:
I have to agree with Eve. Giving points to people who are on at a certain time has never worked appreciably in any guild/link shell I've been a part of. It's particularly unfair to people who are known to never be able to attend at time X as she pointed out. Perhaps, since the forum is rather open to who-said-what and thus nullifies the intended anonymity of the raid votes for people, we could have a character that we all send mail to in the game (little wasteful on coppers and reading time) and we have to send it by whatever time on whatever day. Sure, this idea isn't perfect, but it does show that a person's putting effort into the guild. It allows the "why" of a "no" to be given with the "no" too.

The format could be:

Subject: <Name voted on> Yes/No.

Simple that way, I think.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:45 pm

User avatar
Zepol
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:00 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:
wait your allowed in the meetings???????? :eek: :eek: :eek:
I thought only officers were allowed in there
I mean i would of love to sat in and listened but it was always in the officer channel were its passworded
(RIP-You will never be forgotten)Zepol lvl 70 Lock- Afflication and Destruction.
(Reborn)Zepol lvl 80 Mage - Arcane (Akama)
Ive lvl 80 Shamman - Resto/Elemental(Akama)
Faeith lvl 80 DeathKnight - Frost Tank/Blood DPS(Akama)
Never give up before attempting it first.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:43 pm

User avatar
requiemdreamer
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 12:16 am
Location: CNY
Contact:
Needless to say, the way things are set up isn't perfect, nor will they probably ever be. As of the last Officer meeting there has been a growing problem with the required participation for our guild meetings. As decided on previously, there is a minimum ammount of people necessary to vote someone into membership. Although I'm not to clear on how often there aren't enough people, there have also been problems with people not being there to voice their problems with a certain initiate. Granted, something doesn't need to be said specifically at the guild meeting or aloud to everybody. However, at least 1 Officer should have received some sort of message--whether it be a PM, a WoW letter, or in a private channel on vent--that you had a problem with an initiate becoming a member. If it's not known, then there is nothing we can do.

To try and fix this, we tried thinking of as many possible solutions as we could. One, for example, was a suggestion that attendance points be deducted for not attending meetings, but that one was quickly dismissed. Among the suggestions, rewarding a small ammount of raid attendance points to promote participation in guild meetings appeared to be the best solution at the time. It deffinitely wasn't completely fair to everyone but that's why we wanted to make the point reward small. Although, it might not have been small enough.

Eveangel, after thinking about it more and reading your post I, personally, am realizing more and more that I don't like this much either. The forums are a great place that everyone is able to get to, minus the little ones, and are a great way to discuss these things. Polls could be used to vote a member in and to monitor for any negative votes. Anonymity would be kept but members would have to use PM's to tell Officers about their decision to vote no and not post it in a thread for everyone to see, including and especially the person being talked about. We would not want any arguments or problems happening. As per SSX policies, a privately viewable forum cannot be created, which makes this much more complicated. Also, voting would not be instantaneous and would need to take place over a period of time to give members a chance to place a vote on the forums. This would add more time to an initiate's non-member status and would need to be considered. There is also the problem of participation on the forums from time to time. But, to sum up, using the forums is another good suggestion but it will need to be carefully considered.
Zepol wrote:wait your allowed in the meetings???????? :eek: :eek: :eek:
I thought only officers were allowed in there
I mean i would of love to sat in and listened but it was always in the officer channel were its passworded
Zepol, because I've been gone for a little while and the guild meetings have changed a bit, I can't be too sure of this (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe the Officer meeting is from 5:00 to 5:30 to discuss the things that need to be brought up, and the open guild meeting from 5:30 to 6:00 to present these topics to everyone.
I know that last Friday there weren't even enough Officers to make a solid decision on much of anything and appoligies, but we never brought that up to the rest of the guild. That was our fault.




Also, the raid attendance reward was not suggested as a permanent plan, but perhaps just a way to spark some more participation. And the % reward is small and would require several meeting attendances to make a significant advantage in raids, especialy if it were made smaller.

I like the suggestions being brought up. Let's keep this going and try to find the best solution for everybody. :)
(US) Mannoroth Server
Warlock: Requiemdream
Shaman: Saeglopur
The imprisoner of souls into tiny little purple gem things.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:10 pm

Inquisitor
Posts: 3411
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:46 am
Location: SSX
Contact:
Drive by post:

Alternating days is a tried and true suggestion for monthly events where people have difficulty attending.

If you need to reward them, give them a half point (if that's possible) for each attendance, that way, those who can make it on Fridays get teh same reward as those who can make it on Saturdays and those who can make all them them get a slight bump for being committed?

Just tossing out ideas, I like to see constructive discussions :)
No signature

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:03 pm

User avatar
Zepol
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:00 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:
Ive always seen posts as means to communicate issues within a clan/team/guild not only because of the poll factor but because it is like a paused conversation, whoever speaks there voice can be read instead of remembered. This eliminates the holes in the conversation and miss quote somebody.

But yea haveing forums open for everybody to view will cause an issue for whats said above so my brain is saying right now "Sorry pal i got nothin :shake: "
(RIP-You will never be forgotten)Zepol lvl 70 Lock- Afflication and Destruction.
(Reborn)Zepol lvl 80 Mage - Arcane (Akama)
Ive lvl 80 Shamman - Resto/Elemental(Akama)
Faeith lvl 80 DeathKnight - Frost Tank/Blood DPS(Akama)
Never give up before attempting it first.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:41 am

User avatar
lili
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: The hospital
Contact:
Sturm wrote:I have to agree with Eve. Giving points to people who are on at a certain time has never worked appreciably in any guild/link shell I've been a part of. It's particularly unfair to people who are known to never be able to attend at time X as she pointed out. Perhaps, since the forum is rather open to who-said-what and thus nullifies the intended anonymity of the raid votes for people, we could have a character that we all send mail to in the game (little wasteful on coppers and reading time) and we have to send it by whatever time on whatever day. Sure, this idea isn't perfect, but it does show that a person's putting effort into the guild. It allows the "why" of a "no" to be given with the "no" too.

The format could be:

Subject: <Name voted on> Yes/No.
Simple that way, I think.
are you suggesting that we send everybody an ingame mail for each vote that comes up? No offence but that is a idea that can never be accomplished because I for one will not sit and send each person an ingame mail and try to figure out which one I already send to if there's an alt. if you have a problem with a person msg an officer right away about the issue while it's fresh in everybody's mind, and if you cant make a vote and didn't get a chance to msg an offcer tell somebody who's going to be at the vote how you feel. If you cant make the vote and didn't let somebody know, well then you'll just have to bring it up some other time. There should be no reason why you can't just contact an officer right away even if it's an ingame mail. I know there's usually at least one officer on at all times, so don't wait on your issues. And please read my earilier post to answer mei's concerns about the alternating days of the meeting. Let's keep this to new concers or just a plain I agree with instead of restating everything over.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70

I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:27 am

User avatar
Alorah
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:28 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:
Uh, no Babydolly, that's not what meant, said, or implied. My idea was to have a specific character, let's call it Ssxvote to make it simple, which every member would send an ingame letter to. Of course, this would be an officer's character. This would also take care of the "message an officer right away" because the problem would be given in the body of the "<Name of person voted on> No" letter which is sent to Ssxvote. There's no need for a body when it's a "<Name of person voted on> Yes." It was just an idea off the top of my head anyway.

Besides that, the topic isn't about having complaints about a person, it's about the points for meetings.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:53 am

User avatar
lili
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: The hospital
Contact:
The problem is that it's still end up being on one officer's account and if that officer doesn't make the meeting or didn't check the account then still nothing happens. (And what's wrong with just send an ingame mail to an officer instead of to a seperate character which an officer has to check anyways.) Also not every initiate is up for vote every week so again it goes back to if there's an issue with someone, what happens. The point of msg an officer right away is the fact that if issues occur it can be talked about right away and delt with not trying to recount the details weeks later. Memories tends to fade the longer the event has past. The faster an issue is brought up to an officer the faster it can come to a resolution. If someone's behavior warrents a kick then an officer can do it right away without it being weeks later and no one really remember why somebody should be kicked except for the fact that somebody had a problem with this person. (Believe me if people just voice their issues right away a whole lot of headaches can be avoided.) Guild meeting are not just about membership voting even though it is a big part of it, its about discussing issues. There's complaints every week (and each and every officer knows how much of a headache reading about these complaints during raids are), well guild meetings are a place to bring it up. And yes we know not everybody can make it which is why I'm sugguesting we alternate days on a weekly basis between friday night and saturday night. If there's another night that people want to do it then post it see if the majority agrees.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70

I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:03 pm

User avatar
Alorah
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:28 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:
You don't really seem to be paying attention to what I'm saying. This mere suggestion or idea which I had no real intention of being the solution would not require a guild meeting for the purpose of voting on someone. All it would need is a forum post or guild message that says who we're voting on and every member would have a few days to send in the letter. It's not like it discounts any whispers or secondary letters complaining about the voted person. It even has a form of complaint built into it. It's not like people are going to forget what they already wrote down. Besides, the people who wait until voting time to voice their complaints seem to do ok as it is now.

As for the officer forgetting to check, well the mail will still be there later. The character made just for the vote is so that the officer doesn't have to deal with the constant mail notifications on the character he or she plays and won't accidentally get rid of mail when checking for items.

Can we stop talking about my suggestion that I spent all of two minutes thinking of in the first place? I was only brainstorming.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:14 pm

firedancer
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:58 am
Location: Innsbruck, Austria
This is just a short reminder that animated avatars are
not allowed/welcome/tolerated or whatever in this forum.

so i would appreciate if you remove your animated avatar,
although it is a cute one :sweat: .

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:28 pm

User avatar
lili
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: The hospital
Contact:
he will be notified and reminded again.
Babydolly Frost Mage 70
Pocky Protection Pally 70

I didn't fall from grace, I dove.
What do you mean my halo is lopsided, it's balanced perfectly on my horns.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:49 pm

User avatar
Rlyan
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:19 pm
Location: Virginia Tech
Contact:
Good post, Mei. After reading all that both you and Sean have said, I am beginning to agree that awarding percentage for guild meeting attendance could be unfair.

As to alternating the meeting times, it could be beneficial. I guess what we need to do now is actually see how many people would benefit from an alternating meeting schedule. I know Mei and Joel have problems attending raids on Saturdays, but I'm not sure if Fridays are good for them either. Having meetings on Fridays could actually decrease attendance should it be inconvenient for some. I guess what we need to do next is create a poll to see which idea (current schedule, changing it to Friday nights, or alternating) optimizes attendance.

I have to say that the SSXVOTE idea could actually slow down officer response times, and I honestly do not think it would make general body members more inclined to voice their opinions. Most issues I have brought to my attention have been about a person after they have been admitted into the guild. I agree with Mei when she says that one does not have to attend the guild meeting to be an active member. One problem though is that many people aren't taking an active enough role in getting to know the initiates before it's time to vote. I guess what I am trying to say is, the problem isn't with how things are communicated, but in the lack of communication.

I receive questions or concerns over vent, in-game pms, through in-game mail, through my school email address, or over MSN/AIM (I and many officers have this information posted here on the forums). There are already plenty of ways to get in touch with an officer.
Chris Clarke
ckclarke@vt.edu

Where would you be if it weren't for all the druids' help in World War III?!

Return to “=US= World of Warcraft”